Imagine a global economy that actively works to level the playing field across race, gender and class, and which also considers disability, the one dimension of diversity that crosses all others. How can we inclusively design technologies like AR and AI, that will power future augmented workplaces, so we don’t exclude 1.3B people with disabilities (PWDs)? How can we leverage the creativity, skills, and experiences of PWDs to design more usable future workplace tech? What role will disability play in helping businesses gain a competitive advantage? These questions, along with examples of business strategies and inclusive emerging tech, will be explored by a diverse panel: emerging tech accessibility policy consultant, leading futurist, innovative business strategist, and startup founder.
This session originally aired at SXSW 2021 on March 16, 2021.
Speakers:
Bill Curtis-Davidson
Co-Director, Partnership on Employment & Accessible Technology (PEAT)
Jonathan J Kaufman
President. Kaufman Consulting
Zuby Onwuta
Founder, Think and Zoom
Cathy Hackl
VP, Avatar Dimension
Transcript
BILL CURTIS-DAVIDSON:
Welcome, everyone. My name is Bill Curtis-Davidson, and I’m a senior consultant at Wheelhouse Group, and Co-Director of The Partnership on Employment and Accessible Technology, otherwise known as “PEAT”. PEAT is funded by the Office of Disability Employment Policy at the US Department of Labor. And our mission at PEAT is to foster
collaborations that make emerging tech accessible
to support workplaces using inclusively designed technologies that engage the skills of people with disabilities and to build a future that works. Today, I am so thrilled to facilitate this session on disability-led innovation in future workplaces at this year’s SXSW conference. In this panel, we’re going to ask you to imagine a global economy that actively works to level the playing field across race, gender, and class and which also considers disability, the one dimension of diversity that overlaps with all other dimensions. We’re going to pay special attention to the role that people with disabilities should have in leading and participating in the co-design of emerging technologies to help us meet a goal of equity and inclusion and future workplaces.
And I’m delighted to be joined by three esteemed panelists who will share their diverse perspectives on this important topic. First, I’d like to invite Jonathan J. Kaufman to introduce himself. Jonathan is an innovative thought leader, business educator, and strategist who recognize the impact of personal development on organizational growth. Jonathan?
JONATHAN J. KAUFMAN:
I think the way that I’ve always, I guess, described myself as this as a professional stranger. My work, I think, is combined… it’s sort of at the intersection; I’m a trained psychotherapist, executive coach, anthropologist, and consultant. And a lot of my work as a social scientist is thinking about solutions. And thinking about it really, in the framework of mindset, which is certainly one area. The other is the language of culture. And thirdly, is thinking about how do those merge as we sort of go along into the 21st century? And what are the challenges ahead? So my role in my day-to-day life is about how to find the best solutions, and it’s always really looking at it through a lens of disability. And I was born with a right hemiparesis, a form of cerebral palsy. So living through that lens has been something that has been part and parcel of just my everyday. I think that’s sort of a good introduction to start from there.
BILL CURTIS-DAVIDSON:
Great, thank you so much. We’re so pleased that you could be on this panel, Jonathan. Next, I’d like to ask Zuby Onwuta, who is an innovator, and disability advocate, speaker, author, and inventor and he’ll tell us more about himself. Zuby?
ZUBY ONWUTA:
Thanks so much for having me. I’m Zuby Onwuta, founder and CEO of Think and Zoom, and I’m on a journey of creating a world where visual impairment no longer steals dreams or kills careers. This journey started after visual impairment killed my US military, my medical, as well as my engineering careers. So I started looking for solutions that will help not just me, but in America, upwards of 30 million, and around the world way more than 300 million people who suffer for the country, unemployment of 70% and global illiteracy, of 90%. So our crazy idea is to make solutions that are hands-free to enable the visually impaired to do more, to give them greater user experience, improved functionality, and enhance their productivity so that they can compete in today’s 21st-century workplace. Thanks for having me.
BILL CURTIS-DAVIDSON:
Great. I’m so delighted you could be with us Zuby and you’re going to share some really important perspectives as a founder of a startup that’s really valuable among many other perspectives that you bring.
Next, I’m delighted to have as our third panelist, a globally recognized, augmented, and virtual reality spatial computing thought leader, futurist, author, and Top 10 Tech Voice on LinkedIn. Cathy Hackl. Cathy, would you like to introduce yourself?
CATHY HACKL:
Yeah, thank you. I’m excited to be here. Like you mentioned, my name is Cathy Hackl. I am a futurist at heart. And I am the CEO of the Futures Intelligence Group where we do futures research. And people are like, what does that even mean? How can you research the future if it hasn’t happened? We pretty much look at signals and emerging trends and try to make sense of everything. And, you know, help companies and brands and you know, governments better prepare for the future. And I can tell you that this pandemic has definitely accelerated the interest in that type of, you know, of knowledge. So it’s been interesting. But for me, I come to this panel with the perspective of thinking through the future in a future that’s more accessible, a future that is more equitable as well. And I specifically talk a lot about the metaverse in kind of this world where the physical and the digital collide and the importance of allowing that metaverse to be for everyone. Right. So I think it’s a really exciting time to be having this conversation.
BILL CURTIS-DAVIDSON:
Great. Thank you, Cathy. We’re so excited that all three of you are here. And thank you for making time to share your perspectives with us. So with those introductions out of the way, we’re going to go ahead and get started. And first, I thought we’d like to set the scene a little bit and talk about, Cathy, you mentioned COVID, just a moment ago. All of us feel a sense of urgency in our attempt to recover through this pandemic. And, frankly, the impact on how we work, right, the future workplace is a theme that I’m totally centrally involved with. And I know in recent reports, such as in October 2020, from McKinsey and Company, there was a report called “How COVID-19 Has Pushed Companies Over the Technology Tipping Point and Changed Business Forever”. Right. I think we all feel that. And they outline how, in 2020, digitization accelerated rapidly. That what occurred in eight months would have otherwise taken three to seven years, right? Pretty astounding. And then in some of the emerging tech areas that we focus on in this panel, such as extended reality, a report from September 2020, from the XR Association, A New Reality In Immersive Technology (XR): Insights and Industry Trends, they found that the extended reality technologies have a key role in many industries in recovering from the pandemic. So there’s some interesting conceptualization we have on how emerging tech will help in this recovery.
And while this rapid digitization is expanding access and options for doing what we’re doing here: collaborating, presenting, meeting, and remote options are being in some ways default now from the situation. And there’s a richer experience, but at the same time, there’s a recognition by many businesses that they need to reinvent their practices to make sure that these are not only are these experiences equivalent to in-person experiences, but also that they’re inclusive of everyone, including people with disabilities, who we need to make sure are involved in all levels of our businesses and organizations. So, Jonathan, I think maybe first start out with you and see what your thoughts are on this.
JONATHAN J. KAUFMAN:
I mean, I absolutely agree with you, Bill. I mean, I think that, as you pointed out that COVID has been sort of the great accelerant for all of this. I think what’s interesting from my vantage point is thinking about it from the perspective of balance. Because of the fact that you know, COVID has sort of at least, created this environment where we have to be able to be malleable and be able to use technology in a way. But when I talk about balance, it’s sort of the human element, because there is this question that businesses are thinking about, and they’ve been talking to me about. Okay, well, we’re at a point where we can now be decentralized. But what does that mean about isolation? What does it mean about culture, in terms of developing a corporate culture and a corporate ethos for the 21st century? What does that look like?
So while this is wonderful — and I’m all for it — The question now, and again, I’m coming at it through a very particular lens. You know, I’m coming at it from a much more sort of human perspective in the sense of the psychological perspective as a therapist in one way, but then also thinking about it as how do managers and C-level executives think about their culture? How do we develop an inclusive culture in a decentralized world, in a growing decentralized world? And one of the other things that also is very fascinating is that when we think about technology, we always have to think about, okay, we have to think about it in terms of the level of design, how do we actually make inclusive technology. And when we’re making inclusive technology, it isn’t just about persons with disabilities, it actually impacts everyone. I’m always, you know, sort of simple things, you know, and I remember walking down the street with my sister when she had her kid, and we were talking about curb cuts for people in chairs. She goes, “No, no, no, no, no, no, I just had two kids. This is great for me walking, you know, just going down the streets of Manhattan in a stroller.” So, okay, you take that and you say, Well, wait a minute, if we adopt that to the sort of technological revolution, we’re realizing, okay, this has benefits that have a residual effect beyond. And so there’s a win-win proposition here. Now, the question is, how do we navigate these rough waters post-COVID. And this is a lot of the areas I have been writing about – I write a regular column called “Mindset Matters” in Forbes, and I touch upon a lot of these areas. It isn’t just about the business culture itself, communally. It’s how do we, what is the marriage between technology, the individual, and the organization? And what does that all mean? Because it’s going to be fascinating.
BILL CURTIS-DAVIDSON :
Yes, definitely. Thank you for that, that’s, it’s very thought-provoking. And I know, I always get a lot from reading your columns. So I definitely encourage our audience to check those out. Zuby, I’d love for you to jump in here and share any thoughts you have on this recovery and the role that emerging tech and innovation can play.
ZUBY ONWUTA:
So from my experience, or rather, just piggybacking on what you mentioned, how in eight months, you know, the digital realm accelerated, you know, real quickly, and something that will stick in three to seven years. Well, before COVID — and I’m speaking through the lens of somebody who is visually impaired — things were not always working very well for us. Now, COVID comes around, you know, everybody’s staying home, you can’t have any contact. So things got really very bad very quickly. Things were so bad, I had to write a blog, to start sharing with people on you know, new practices, where to get help, organizations that were organizing volunteers to start dropping groceries, grocery shopping for people who are visually impaired. So, you know, just like Jonathan said, we have to think of, you know, this inclusion, right, not just to serve people with disabilities, but everybody. And I’m sure Cathy can touch more on this, but, you know, with the kind of work that I do, where I touch emerging technology, I’ve seen technology, I’ve seen AI, work with another AI to give birth to a human — well, I can’t even say to human because the person doesn’t exist. So you see all these fascinating pieces of technology, and you start thinking, but I know somebody who has a limitation that just a fraction of this superpower can help them be more productive person can make them more independent in society.
So I think that you know, as we recover, it could be a great opportunity, in the sense that we can look at all of those that were severely impacted. And we can say, well, this is an opportunity for us to be now more open-minded for us to reach out more and bring a true cross-section of our society to the decision-making table. And get peoples’ input in, so that when we actually release solutions, technology solutions can help everybody. For instance, I don’t want to mention the name but there’s a certain shoe footwear company that just released a pair of footwear that you don’t have to lace it up. And it is such a huge hit. Imagine that? Something so simple, right? So it doesn’t even have to take a huge lift. Something so simple, but it can have such a huge impact across several demographics. So I think it’s an opportunity for us to just kind of reevaluate how we do things right and tweak it a little bit so that we can serve more people.
BILL CURTIS-DAVIDSON:
Yeah, those are great examples, both the grocery service, right, because that’s what happens. We have these problems, we have the challenges that happen in life, and everyone’s lived experiences vary. But using these cases where disability has provided some barrier, the situation has caused a barrier. And then how do we innovate? How do we develop something that can then be more broadly usable? Cathy, go ahead and jump in here. I’m curious what you have to say.
CATHY HACKL:
Yeah, Zuby, I love that you mentioned that example of the shoes because it was one of those things where, you know, it was designed for accessibility, but it’s actually such a big hit like everyone wants a pair, you know. So I think that it just proves the point that it doesn’t have to be designed only, you know, it’s something that’s designed for accessibility doesn’t have to be only targeted to a certain audience. It can be a broad mass appeal, just like the curbs Jonathan was mentioning. It’s not only about that it’s yeah, someone that you know, has kids and has to use a stroller when I lived in Madrid. Oh, my goodness, thank God for those curbs, right. Those, you know, ramps.
What I will say so something for me during the pandemic, that has accelerated some of my thinking, as you know, I’ve been kind of dedicating time to my second book, which is called The Augmented Workforce. And the premise of the book is, you know, is looking at technology through a different lens. So instead of only focusing on technology is something that replaces humans, right, because I think that’s we all think Terminator, Skynet like, yeah, right? They’re gonna take all our jobs. And yes, there is going to be job replacement, there is going to be automation. I’m not naive about that. But if you think technology is also something that complements us humans and complements workers. And I think that’s what I find so exciting.
When I was writing the intro to the book, I wrote about what inspired my book and this is a really interesting story, Bill. I was at — it was about two years, two and a half years ago — I was at a soccer game for my daughter. And behind me, I heard a voice. And I was like, Wow, that sounds like my friend, Paula. But Paula had suffered, she had, she had in her fifth pregnancy when she gave birth, she got paralyzed, there was a very strange condition that she was under, she hadn’t recovered. And you know, I remember seeing her in pictures where, you know, she wasn’t able to walk or move. And I heard her behind me, I turned back, and I see her walking. I see her walking in front of me, and she’s wearing this special exoskeleton. So that moment to me was a big signal. And I said, Look, technology is not about the Terminator and replacing the worker. Technology is about allowing this mom of five to be able to walk. And that’s what my that’s what inspired my book. And I think it became so clear during the pandemic, how these technologies can have a massive impact to everyone, whether it is that they have a disability, or whether you know, they fall ill with something that disables them for a certain period of time. But allowing people to look at technology as something that should be designed for everyone not thinking about just a specific population, but thinking how can I design something that helps absolutely everyone as much as I can?
BILL CURTIS-DAVIDSON:
Yeah, that’s, that’s a great story. And you were reminding me of I’ve worked in accessibility my whole career, basically, but and work with so many different people with different skills and different levels. And what I consistently hear, especially with the technology’s changing into more wearable or spatial, is that, you know, it’s really valuable to learn about the experience of people with disabilities using their devices. We all use multiple devices, mobile phones, we’ve got a headphone in our ear, we’ve got something we’re looking at maybe on a screen or magnifying something or simultaneous activities. And I think when we learn about the way people with disabilities experience media and interact with the real world, right, there’s, you can learn a lot from that that would inform design, right? So I think that’s the other thing that comes to mind. So, you know…
CATHY HACKL:
And I want to jump in with something else, Bill, because during the pandemic, I also because in you, you know If you’ve known me for a while I am a futurist. So I also get to test a lot of these technologies. And I think that I’ve also been thinking through them through a different lens. So I’ve been quite lucky. I’m probably one of the very few people in this world that’s been able to try about four or five of the brain-computer interfaces, the external devices, nothing internal. So being able to scroll an iPad just with my brain, or turn on a light just by thinking of it, or, you know, or play a video game, just with my thoughts. And at the moment I did it, I was like, Oh, this is so cool, right? It was a “wow” factor. But then when I sat with the experience, I said, Wow, this opens up so many possibilities for people that might not be able to do this. And the reason and once again, going back to Paula, my friend that inspired my book, I actually the first device that I tried, and then I actually bought a developers kit, was to actually initially was to create an app for her to be able to scroll her iPad, just with her thoughts. You know, things change, and then she got better. And now she’s got her exoskeleton. So we didn’t do that. But still, the fact that there are technologies, you know, I think William Gibson said, “the future is already here. It’s not evenly distributed.” And I feel that that’s one of those cases where it’s like, like Zuby said, If only a quarter or a half of that technology would be given or use for this, it could change so many lives.
BILL CURTIS-DAVIDSON:
Yeah, and I think one, this is probably an appropriate point to bring up the “nothing for us without us”, which is the theme we have in accessibility and inclusive design. And I know, you know, Zuby, you probably have a very unique perspective here, because number one, you are blind, and you’re also an innovator. And that’s one of the things that I know we work hard at in our work. And with our collaborations in our communities like XR Access and other communities, where we’re trying to make sure that as we look at this new disability narrative that Jonathan’s speaking to, and Cathy, you know, we need to make sure that people with disabilities have ways to be involved at all levels and that they are actually actively designing and shaping. Because we cannot be in a situation. There are many examples that I won’t go in to, of tech that’s been designed, thinking that it would be useful for different situations. And maybe it’s not right, because it’s not really designed with the proper perspective. So Zuby, maybe you… I don’t know if you’d like to comment on this kind of idea of engaging people with disabilities directly and how that’s valuable and important.
ZUBY ONWUTA:
Oh, I think it’s really crucial if you will. And we can just, you know, look at what Cathy just mentioned, right, we need more Cathys. She identified a problem and took initiative, and found one of the best ways to help her friend Paula, right? By making it very easy for Paula to scroll the iPad. Right? It wasn’t about, let me give Paula the coolest, right, the greatest but it’s Paula is in some discomfort, let me make her more comfortable. Let me give her something that will make her function more and produce more. Let me give her the ability to just use her thoughts to scroll through this iPad. Amazing, right? And so I think if we, you know, bring that mindset, right, to the decision-making table, then what that will do is allow us to one start looking for people like Paula, to start looking for people like Cathy, right? People who want to do this kind of stuff, right? And then start looking for people that are in between. So I’m in between because I have both a disability and I’m also doing kind of stuff that Cathy is doing, right? And then when you bring this you know, cross-section to that decision-making table, what you produce can then serve, right, and impact you know, across the board. And I know at Think and Zoom I started this journey three years ago, just out of not seeing disabled innovators and what did I find? Well, the cruise control in your car was designed by a blind guy, right?
BILL CURTIS-DAVIDSON:
Wow makes sense. CATHY HACKL: Amazing!
ZUBY ONWUTA:
The Internet that we’re using right now. The real one of the reasons it got started was for a deaf man to communicate better by text with his wife. I mean, yeah. With his wife and family. And now we’re using it, right? And so there are so many other amazing innovators I found. And I’m like, wow, wouldn’t it be amazing to be able to build a forum where all of these people come to bring that talent to bear so we can just create a better world? So I think, you know, Bill to answer you, it’s crucial that we do this so we can serve society better.
BILL CURTIS-DAVIDSON:
Yeah, thank you for those examples. And also to talk about your personal story with Think and Zoom. I always find it fascinating when there’s such a personal connection to what you’re designing, too. Jonathan, what do you have to share with this idea, or examples you can think of that are relevant?
JONATHAN J. KAUFMAN:
I want to pick up on something that both Cathy and Zuby said. I think that there is another hurdle to go over. Because I think having the technology is great. But one of the areas that I sort of work on is — we talked about mindset — but it’s how do you communicate that. And the hurdle is: okay, the technology exists, innovators exist, but how do you get them heard? How do you get them into the marketplace? So I think it is incredibly important, whether we’re talking to C-level executives, to senior managers, to VCs, a venture capitalist, and saying, Okay, how do we put these two things together? We know the technology is here, we know that there are young entrepreneurs that exist. Now it’s a matter and it even goes further than just sort of C-level executives at large tech companies or VC firms. But it’s marketing itself. It’s getting the message. You know, I think of Marshall McLuhan, he used to say, “the medium is the message”. And now again, that’s before my time. But so what? You know what? That maxim still works. And it’s so valuable to say, Okay, we have to look at the methodology of how we connect, I mean, really connect, to have a greater understanding and a greater appreciation. So there is not only seeing the augmentation of the technology itself, and how valuable that is, to the innovators that exist in that ecosystem. But Thirdly, is to say, how do we connect capital? One. How do we connect businesses to say, okay, we’re gonna pick up on a great idea, and let’s run with it? And then thirdly, it’s how do we look at sort of the marketing apparatus to get the message across?
I mean, you guys spoke earlier and I wrote last week in Forbes, about the Nikes – you know, the FlyEase. And, you know, I spoke with Matthew Walzer, who it was his inspiration. You know, he and I have been going back and forth on Twitter. He’s been really, I’ve been thankful for him, in terms of the response from him, because I was nervous. But you know, that’s one thing. You could look at OXO, for example, which is a wonderful company, that is created kitchenware. And that was designed out of a need, because the founder of the company’s wife, had Parkinson’s. And that’s great. And Zuby mentioned something before, we can even go and look at Gallaudet University in 1976, was the origin of texting unto itself. And now it is so ubiquitous, you can’t get around without it. But if you think about it, and I had mentioned this before, I had spoken to the provost of MIT a few years ago, and his statement to me was about 65% of our student body is on the autism spectrum. So if you go to any major stalwart tech company, whether it’s Microsoft or Amazon, or Apple, the fingerprints of people with disabilities are all over the technology we use. Now, it is a question of saying, how do we bring that to the surface? And this is where marketing, advertising, PR – those components play an enormous role because this is about developing a new culture. And when we come out of COVID, which we will come out of, we’re getting there. It’s how do we reframe this in a new way? How do we look at the value of persons with disabilities, a new narrative of disability, and how does that connect to the larger human story?
BILL CURTIS-DAVIDSON:
Right, and that brings me to some other questions I wanted to ask you about practices, right? Like so I think you’re all referring to the need to shift our thinking and also how we work and then, of course, making sure that we have people at the table that have the variety of experiences not just of disability, but all areas of diversity really. And I think this is what we think about at PEAT a lot when we think about accessibility programs or inclusive design programs. What do we recommend organizations do, right? And it’s getting more complicated because of the compounding of technology, right? If we think about something like AI really AI is in everything, right? And extended reality or spatial computing paradigms is a really whole new paradigm, right? It’s going to populate across a variety of technologies. So I think I look at what I’m excited about is for organizations that really take this to heart and do change their mindset, and put in place practices. You’re going to be future-proofed a lot better than other companies, right? You’re going to be able to actually literally handle this better. And Cathy, I’m sure you can think of some areas like I look at like, what’s just happening with virtual telepresence and meetings, right? You do work in holographic, volumetric video, and telepresence. These are areas that you almost have to think about multimodality and complexity and design, which seems to be a ripe space, right?
CATHY HACKL:
Yeah, I think so. I think it’s interesting. You know, I think the term “Human-Centered Design” should have humans — all humans — at the center of it. Yeah, it’s, it’s interesting to me, I love the term, sometimes I think it gets overused without really being what is this mean? So I think that it’s going to be at the center of that, you know, with telepresence, and everything. And, you know, Bill, I spoke in a Department of Labor event last year.
BILL CURTIS-DAVIDSON:
Yeah.
CATHY HACKL:
It was really interesting. I saw, I was speaking to the Secretary and I said, you know, these technologies, especially, like, let’s say, virtual reality, you know, for people that do have vision will allow them the visual part, there is an audio side, and we will get to that, because I think it’s really interesting, and people don’t talk about it too much. But from the side of putting on a VR headset, and being able to be transported into a social space, where I’m able to spend time with my friends, even though my friends are, you know, all over the world, and I cannot be with them. You know, and I can be anyone I want to be, I could be a purple dragon, or I can be a man or I can be whatever I want to be, right? I think that has been very powerful, especially for people that are you know, maybe they’re right now during the pandemic at home alone. And they’re able to put on a headset and spend some time with other humans, you know, in these virtual spaces. And that’s where I think and I see my children, I look at my children, you know, we’re all stuck at home. I spend more time with my children than I have in a very long time. And they have really become to me a mirror into the future. I think I knew it before. But I think it’s become so clear to me during this pandemic. And I look at how they play in these virtual spaces like they’re avid Roblox players, for example. And when they play in those games, they have so many different avatars and so many different skins. And they choose to be this one day, and they choose to be this another day. Internally. I’m like, how wonderful. I think that is such a wonderful thing. Because the younger generation is a lot more fluid in their identity, and a lot more accepting in their identity. And I think that that has good implications, you know, that bodes well for the future in some ways. And, for example, I recorded one of the featured sessions here at South by Southwest is a panel on the music business in the metaverse and I’m the moderator. And we talked about a concert that happened in Roblox and one of the things that came up was like, it’s an accessible space. You know, it’s like any, like, almost anyone could access that concert. Whereas normally, you know, going to a live concert has certain implications. Not everyone can go, you know, for many different reasons. But all these people, millions of people across the globe, were able to experience this live concert. You know, it wasn’t live, it was recorded. But this live experience of being in this concert with Lil Nas, and it was beautiful. And I think it was beautiful. So I don’t know, I feel like the metaverse and this coming world where digital and physical collide has very positive impacts that will allow people with disabilities to be able to do jobs they weren’t able to do before. Or you know, I don’t know, I’m just excited about the Human-Centered Design side of things when it comes to the metaverse.
BILL CURTIS-DAVIDSON:
Yeah. Oh, definitely. That’s a great example of the immersive events and the ability for all to be there, assuming we design it well enough that everyone can experience it, including people maybe who can’t hear very well, right? Like what does that look like? What does that like for them? Yeah, that’s a lot of promise. Right?
CATHY HACKL:
To that point, you know, because, Zuby, I know that you wouldn’t be able to kind of necessarily see a lot of it. Is there audio, there’s an audio component to this augmented world. You know, I’ve, I’ve had the, I would say one of the most immersive experiences have been the pandemic was an audio experience, sort of literally in my Air Pods. It was called Dark Field Radio. It is very spooky, very spooky. I don’t recommend it to everyone. But I had I don’t think I’ve ever had such an immersive experience at home in that sense. It was amazing.
BILL CURTIS-DAVIDSON:
Yeah, well, we know with all the wearables, and of course, Zuby, I’d love to hear from you on this, the wearables and the possibilities of, of devices are changing and being able to provide things like spatialized audio and all of these things. Zuby, what are your thoughts about some of this?
ZUBY ONWUTA:
Yeah, so that’s why I refer to Cathy as being you know, the right person for this. She really, really embeds herself in emerging technology. But just imagine this, right. And let me set a context, first of all. So from the visually impaired community, a lot of people, you know, don’t understand that it’s also a spectrum. It’s only about 5% of this population, that’s totally blind, maybe some totally damaged optic nerve. But the majority of us, you know, bring the font or face, you know, from different inches away, right. So now imagine that, and I’ll be just adding more or, you know, innovating on what Cathy’s already set up for us. So imagine that there’s this, you know, VR headset, right. And it also has nice, you know, 3D sound audio. And then when I’m looking at it, I can see my email, right, because it makes it as huge as I want. And oh, by the way, I can make it bigger or smaller. By tapping into my brainwaves. I’m already wearing the VR headset across my forehead, right? And then there is something called, you know, eye fatigue. So sometimes the eyes get tired. And so just like Cathy had built this application of using your brainwaves to scroll the iPad for Paula. And when my eyes get tired, I can just close my eyes and just now using my brainwaves to be controlling the text to speech, you know, consuming content. Because at the end of the day, you know, content is all around you in the world and you want to consume it, right? That’s like the most important thing. It’s not the jazzy, flashy pop-up, you know. It’s beautiful, but you want to consume the content, right. And so I think it will be quite a fascinating world that can unlock a tremendous amount of opportunity and possibility, as well as productivity.
And then going back to, you know, the storytelling that Jonathan mentioned. I mean, I think that is something that’s also like a blind spot that we don’t often talk about. Because even today, in 2021, the word “disability” conjures some nonprofits helping people. But I know people like Caroline Casey, and the Valuable 500 have been doing quite a tremendous job, right? She was in Davos, Switzerland. This was in 2019, I believe. And for the very first time, she brought disability to the floor of the World Economic Forum. And I’m like, wow, that’s the first person that did this. And why did she do that? Well, she’s legally blind herself, right? And coincidentally, I just happened to be also in Switzerland, speaking at the UN in Geneva, three months later. And I was the only person talking about disability from such a perspective. So you know, storytelling, as well as like Cathy mentioned, bringing all the humans, you know, to be in the center of this design. And we do have the pieces of the technology we have them today is just putting in the right mix to serve and impact the people positively.
BILL CURTIS-DAVIDSON:
Yeah, putting programs in place. That’s one of the things that’s so great about Valuable 500 is that people are making commitments of their own choosing, on a spectrum of elements, right? Putting an accessibility program in place or working on different projects…
ZUBY ONWUTA:
Disability in the boardroom, a boardroom topic yeah. Many companies had never even mentioned that word before. Exactly. If it doesn’t start at the boardroom, it doesn’t cascade down throughout the organization.
BILL CURTIS-DAVIDSON:
Yeah. And I know, Jonathan, you speak so much to the business community, right? Leadership and how important this is, I think, you know, when I think about things like employee resource groups and co-design methods, and what are the piece parts that we should be thinking about here for business leaders?
JONATHAN J. KAUFMAN:
I think for business leaders, they can you know, instead of reinventing the wheel, particularly in fortune 500 companies, sort of larger corporations that have ERG groups, you know, employee resource groups who say, again, we have to mine you for all the information we can get. And one of the important things that you certainly brought up was if you look at the sort of disability ERG groups, you’re looking at disability is the essence of diversity as it runs across race, ethnicity, gender, socioeconomic, sexual orientation, and so on, and so forth. So it has a broad appeal. So if you’re sort of using the data that you can mine from these ERG groups, but you’re also what you’re doing simultaneously, while getting that data, you are creating. Again, this goes back to the sort of culture. You are familiarizing people to say, this isn’t about — as Zuby points out — you know, the non for profit. Oh, this is about, you know, this is about a handout. No! This is about making the business case. This is about seeing what is the value proposition that organizations need to do. Because at the end of the day, you know, we can always think about it as a business. While it has a multitude of values, it is designed at the end of the day, to make a profit. You know, I hate to seem very crass about it. But there is an element of that. Now, again, the word, you know, the Business Roundtable and the World Economic Forum have redesigned what a corporation is, and what the message of a corporation is. And that has grown. But we always have to come back to the point of, okay, the beating heartbeat of any company is to survive. It’s, you know, it’s like a shark. And if you don’t sort of create a revenue model, it won’t exist. But if we look at this and say, wait a minute, we have this convergence now of new technologies that can have enormous value. That is important. Now, the question is — and I think both Zuby and Cathy certainly have mentioned this wonderfully — is the story, the narrative. Because that is important.
And I do want to say one other thing — and this is sort of a side note — is a counterpoint to what we’re talking about. Which I think is important. You know, part of my work is really as an executive coach, and as a psychotherapist. So I look at sort of the mental components of this. And it’s the pushback to technology, the fear of one, affordability. Okay, the technology is here, but can I afford it? Two, in this new realm of decentralization, is it better in terms of creating community? What is you know, what’s the fallout? What are the repercussions? And again, these are things that just need to be in the mix of the discussion. I think all of the positive aspects of it, and I’m on board with all of it. But I want to make sure that we think about these things methodically. Because I can tell you sitting in a session and having a CEO, or a young entrepreneur, or somebody working from home, who’s dealing with social anxiety, mental health issues, and saying, “Wait a minute, you know, the technology is great. But is it creating a barrier for me?” As much as it’s creating an open door? And so these are some of the questions that I have to deal with in terms of the day-to-day minutia, not the larger pieces. So I want to make sure that we look at the counterpoint to all of the wonderful stuff that technology has, so we can sort of nip it in the bud as quickly as possible.
BILL CURTIS-DAVIDSON:
Very interesting. Yeah, those are important points and I think we all have a lot to think about. So, I think we’re going to begin wrapping up and I want to give you each a chance to share any important resources you think could be helpful.
One that I’d like to share – and Zuby, you’ve been involved in this effort that is just getting underway that will start more in earnest more later this year with the American Association of People with Disabilities leading an effort called Start Access where we are working on startups and accessibility. There have been other efforts underway in this area, but what we are trying to do there initially is focus on, for example,
an area of concern which is AI-enabled workplace technologies – specifically the talent acquisition space. There is a lot of concerns with some of these new tech. And again, it’s a ripe area for not only looking at some of the big challenges that are underway but also more broadly in startups. How do we build the type of virtuous cycles that we’ve described today? Making sure that people with disabilities are involved at each level. That there are capital and support. What programs can be put in place to help fund these initiatives? How can we match investors with talent and with opportunity areas that startups are working on? So, Zuby, maybe I’ll start with you and ask what thoughts you have as close out?
ZUBY ONWUTA:
Sure. Wow! I have quite a number of them. Is that OK?
BILL CURTIS-DAVIDSON: Sure, please!
ZUBY ONWUTA:Thanks so much for mentioning the AAPD. That was really great. One of the things that come to my
mind is Human Co-Design Initiative (HCDI) or humanistic.app. This was founded by Kyle Keane, he’s a professor out of MIT, and he’s visually impaired. And he’s a professor of assistive tech. He created this group where he’s coaching students. High school students and college students. Each group is working on different assistive technology solutions. I’m a mentor. I found them on the internet and I contribute my time to them from time to time. So, funding such an initiative creates a huge impact because Kyle has been able to fund this out of his pocket and just trying to make things work, right. And then, at MIT they have this assistive tech hack-a-thon. I spent years researching, but these are students, right. They come up with… it’s MIT, right? So, they come up with something great, but then they graduate. And it just sits there. Right? Even at Stanford, I talked to a Ph.D. student. She created 2.5D. What does that mean? It means a real-time tactile feeling of whatever is displayed on your digital screen. Imagine the impact of that? She didn’t even know what to do with it! I was blown away!
So there are all these different initiatives and programs. Like, I’m also part of this Disability Startup Network out of Washington, DC, but it’s now called 2GI. So that is the first time I found a Meetup group of disabled entrepreneurs… all kinds of disabilities. Wow! That would be great to give this funding to a national center for disability entrepreneurship. So I think that it’s great there are some of these groups, right? But giving them the right kind of funding, or connecting them to the right big power corporation, right, that can look at what they are doing. Have engineers – For instance, Google – they have their 20% time. Well, their 20% time brought about – what is it called? – wheelchair accessible locations to Google Maps. It was a Google engineer that organized a team and did that. Or another Google team brought about wheelchair sensors for people that use wheelchairs. I didn’t know they had sore points. Again, another 20% time. And even Microsoft is doing assistive tech hack-a-thons, you know right? So these are different things… but, you know, by and large, right, those solutions now need to be moved into the market. Those are some of the things I’m aware of. I hope that you know, as we come out of COVID and things get better, that we can put a laser focus on these things and support them so we have meaningful solutions that can help and impact people.
BILL CURTIS-DAVIDSON:
Those are great ideas. And I know as someone that works in, what I characterize as convening the community, right, what you just said is so important. Like how do we bring these parties together and get the resources they need, share knowledge, all of that. And then having a pipeline of disability leadership, talent. Jonathan, final words?
JONATHAN J. KAUFMAN:
Look, I think that, Zuby, you had sort of mentioned Caroline Casey and the Valuable 500, who I know both very well. I think they provide a wonderful model. Because, one, they are bringing it to the forefront. Two, they are placing companies really on notice, saying, “Look, you really need to think about this.” And these are major companies. What is important is the narrative. What is the narrative as we go forward? Because each of you has talked about a piece of the narrative. Now it’s coalescing all of them to say, “OK, what is the message, how do we get out there, and what are the connecting points?” So that you can, one, get the technology to the marketplace. Two, you can get the story or the message, the marketing across. And, three, you have to think about, OK, what is the next phase in terms of consumer acquisition? You know? So you have all of these silos if you will. Where is the connecting point? And this is going to be the challenge. I mean it’s fun and it’s fabulous and interesting because we know it exists. As Zuby already said, there’s all this technology whether it’s out of Stanford or CalTech or Carnegie Mellon. You know, but how do we get it seen? And who sees it is just as important. And the final thought is – and I go back to this – is the mindset. Mindset is very important because it’s how one thinks and how one perceives the understanding of disability in general. We are now at a point – and I’m writing a book literally on this – where you have to look at disability and the lived experience as disability not just as personhood and agency, but as an ever-growing body of knowledge. Take this from Foucault, who talks about the archaeology of knowledge. What we have in this community, through the lived experience, is this extraordinary body of knowledge. So, how does that play out in real-time to create something that is beneficial for all?
BILL CURTIS-DAVIDSON:
That’s great… Thank you, that is inspiring, and I feel energized actually. Cathy, I’m going to give you the last word in our last minutes of the session.
CATHY HACKL:
I don’t know how to follow that up, Jonathan. That was amazing! What I would say, Zuby, is that you reminded me when you talked about texting, how it was created… and cruise control… I think though the current technology I’m seeing right now and where the future is going, right? I’m a futurist at the end of the day. I think about what happens, what comes next. And you know there’s, for example, this afternoon I had a call with a company that makes a haptic glove. And they’ve progressed so much in the technology – and they showed me a video where someone was actually petting a virtual cat. And they could feel the cat purring. Right? And that to me is like, “Wow”! I mean you know that’s cute, but if you think about the implications of what that can do, and the amazing possibilities. Or, Mojo Vision which is… So Haptics is an American company; Mojo Vision is another American company that is making augmented reality contact lenses. Right now they are working with low vision populations to help them almost be able to see in a totally different way.
And, basically where I’m getting to here is that, from an American perspective. I live in DC, so I’m kind of thinking through the current ethos and how we think about things. The conversation has been a lot around artificial intelligence. And artificial intelligence is incredibly important. It will change a lot of our lives and is changing our world. But when it comes to how we as humans will engage with the world, I think that the extended reality technologies, whether it’s in our audio, whether it’s in touch, whether it’s in our visuals are going to have a bigger impact on us as humans than AI. Because we are not going to see the AI as much. We’ll see it, you know, through AR. But I think that we’re having a giant conversation over here about artificial intelligence with millions of dollars being allocated over here. Whereas in VR and AR, the US already leads. We already lead. This is American born technology. The Godfather of VR, the Godmother, the Grandfather, the Father of VR – they are all American. And I’m baffled why there’s not much more being put into that space from the Federal point-of-view of investing in these technologies to make us a better population and to help so many people.
So, anyway, I don’t want to kind of, I don’t want to leave with that. I just want to say this is an exciting time. There’s a quote from John Scully who was the CEO of Apple. And he said, “The future belongs to those who see the possibilities before they become obvious.” And I think that Zuby for example, you, Jonathan, Bill. You guys see what can be possible. You live it and you understand it. And I think that we all – including corporate America, including the Government, need to listen and need to pay attention because you see what is possible and what these technologies can do to make us better humans and a better society.
BILL CURTIS-DAVIDSON:
Great. Thank you so much for that, Cathy. And I just want to say thanks to each of you. This has been really fun, actually, to talk with all of you. And I hope that you in the audience have gotten a lot of interesting ideas that we’ve shared with you, and also more importantly putting some things into action. So, please learn more about this space, watch us, watch others in this space. And, I’m personally very optimistic about all of what we’ve talked about today, and I really just again want to genuinely thank you for being with us today and for all of you watching. Thank you, take care. Bye-bye.
