Future of Work Podcast, Episode 29.
Shane Kanady, Vice President of Workforce Development at Source America, discusses challenges people with disabilities face around finding work, including technology concerns.
This podcast is developed in partnership with Workology.com as part of PEAT’s Future of Work series, which works to start conversations around how emerging workplace technology trends are impacting people with disabilities.
Intro: [00:00:01.02] Welcome to the Workology Podcast, a podcast for the disruptive workplace leader. Join host Jessica Miller-Merrell, founder of Workology.com, as she sits down and gets to the bottom of trends, tools and case studies for the business leader, HR and recruiting professional who is tired of the status quo. Now here’s Jessica with this episode of Workology.
Jessica Miller-Merrell: [00:00:26.99] The topic of job creation might not be one you are thinking about now, but it is one that you should be considering. As we look at planning and working towards rebuilding our companies, we are presented with a unique opportunity. It’s very unique. As we rebuild, to think strategically about future job creation and how we can create inclusive hiring programs for all, including underrepresented areas like people with disabilities. This Workology podcast is sponsored by WorkMarket, an ADP Company. This episode of the Workology podcast is part of our Future of Work series, and it’s powered by PEAT, the Partnership on Employment and Accessible Technology. In honor of the upcoming 30th anniversary of the Americans with Disabilities Act this July, we’re investigating what the next 30 years will look like for people with disabilities at work and the potential of emerging technologies to make workplaces more inclusive and accessible. Today, I’m joined by Shane Kanady. He’s the Vice President of Workforce Development at Source America. Source America is a nonprofit that connects customers to a national network of nonprofits who hire talented people with disabilities. Through this valuable network of nonprofits and their employees, Source America supplies products and services that meet the strictest quality standards at a competitive price. Shane, welcome to the Workology podcast.
Shane Kanady: [00:01:51.00] Thank you so much for having me, Jessica. I’m happy to be here.
Jessica Miller-Merrell: [00:01:54.00] Can you tell us a little bit more about your background, Shane?
Shane Kanady: [00:01:50.99] Sure. So, I’ve worked in the disability community for my entire career. I’ve been with Source America for 18 years and at various roles in operations and public policy. And now, as the Vice President of Workforce Development, where I get the privilege to work with a team of very passionate workforce development professionals. Through my time in public policy and now as it continues through workforce development, I’ve had a pretty strong focus on this future of work topic, which we define as the intersection of changes in society and policy, technology and the economy. So, through that work, I’ve been fortunate to publish several reports. I’ve been able to work with House and Senate offices to advise on federal policy and speak at the United Nations in New York and International Labor Organization in Geneva and get the opportunity to appear on podcasts with folks like yourself in order to talk about these topics and share information. In terms of my educational background, I have a master’s in social entrepreneurship from George Mason University, where I also served as a social impact fellow, also a fellow with the Aspen Institute Future of Work Initiative and with the Royal Society for the Encouragement of Arts, Manufactures and Commerce.
Jessica Miller-Merrell: [00:03:13.00] Awesome. Tell me more about Source America for those who aren’t familiar.
Shane Kanady: [00:03:16.00] Sure. So, Source America is an independent 501(c)(3) nonprofit organization. We’re headquartered in Vienna, Virginia. We have multiple regional offices across the country. We work with a large nationwide network of nonprofit organizations. Each one of them are independent 501(c)(3)s that provide community-based supports to persons with disabilities in a variety of ways. The primary way that they relate to us is through employment. So, we have around 750 organizations within our network and they employ around 90 thousand persons with disabilities nationwide each year. The majority of those individuals are employed through a federal program called the US AbilityOne program, which is one of the largest sources of employment in the United States for persons with disabilities.
Jessica Miller-Merrell: [00:04:06.00] Can you talk to us about some of the biggest challenges facing people with disabilities today and finding work?
Shane Kanady: [00:04:12.0] So the report that we published in February, it’s called An Inclusive Future of Work Systems approach, really dives into this topic in a great amount of detail. And we did that by mapping out the relationships between actors and systems involved in the employment of persons with disabilities across the country with around 100 different stakeholder groups. So fundamentally, the biggest challenge that we see is a failure to recognize that persons with disabilities are diverse and have no shortage of skills or experiences that make them as important to the labor market as their nondisabled peers. So, this lack of recognition that we see, which is pervasive and is long-standing, is really the starting point for under-investment in accessible and inclusive education, training programs, recruitment, interviewing practices and everything that follows that. They all precede this conversation around employment and then have some bearing on sustainability of employment and how people come and go within the labor market. But ultimately what we find is when we fail to recognize the value of others, we create these barriers to their inclusion.
Jessica Miller-Merrell: [00:05:39.00] Thank you for that. And we’re going to include a link in the resources section of the report that you’re mentioning so if people do want to learn more, they are welcome to go to the Workology website and click directly there, or they can also go to the Source America site. I know that you have a resources and report section that’s really easy to find as well.
Shane Kanady: [00:05:39.00] Yeah.
Jessica Miller-Merrell: [00:11:07.02] How does the shift to more remote jobs being hired in the future change employment for people with disabilities.
Shane Kanady: [00:05:47.00] So this is a great topic. This is something that’s getting a lot of attention. And this trend really has the potential to benefit many people who have experienced physical and social barriers to typical office settings. But the success of this, it depends on ensuring the accessibility and usability of more remote working platforms, the telepresence options that are currently out there, the things that need to be advanced in that area to really enable people to engage with work in a very meaningful way. And based on the way that they would like to do that, a way that accentuates the value that they can create in their talents. And we still have to really think about the same authentic dedication to an inclusive culture that would be needed in a non-remote work environment. So, when we talk about building a culture of inclusion within an organization, it’s the same whether it’s remote or in person. There needs to be that investment, that dedication and that commitment.
Jessica Miller-Merrell: [00:06:45.00] I want to dive deeper into this because I feel like for a lot of HR leaders, they’re just not aware that there are challenges even for remote workers that maybe have disabilities. It’s just like, oh, you know, they don’t have to get to work. Shouldn’t be a problem. They should be able to log in to the Zoom call or the computer and be able to do what needs to be done. So, can you maybe talk in a little bit more detail about some things that employers should be thinking about as they start hiring more remote workers right now?
Shane Kanady: [00:07:16.00] Sure. Absolutely. And, you know, when we think about that, it’s really about leveraging the tools and the resources that we are starting to become more and more reliant on in our work, these virtual platforms, the accessibility features that are built into them. But understanding that sometimes those features don’t go far enough to really enable people to be present in those meetings or to participate in a way that they would like. So, employers need to consider, as they engage with their teams, different people show up to those meetings in diverse ways. Right. So if you have a team member who might be deaf, do you have ASL translators that are part of the team that you bring on as an accommodation that are part of the engaging in those meetings in those, in those virtual settings so that an individual can visibly see them, but also get the benefit of, you know, the voice that they might provide for them in the event that they are non-verbal. Do we have access to software that is doing real-time translation so that people can get real-time captioning as they’re engaging with that? So those are examples, you know, pretty simple examples for persons who might have hearing impacts. But even as you’re engaging with employees from the virtual standpoint, who might have blindness, right, making sure that we are mindful, if we are showing something visual on a screen for a group of people that we are verbalizing what it is that people are seeing. Right. So, you’re bringing people into the conversation. You’re giving them the benefit of that recognition that there might be additional information that they’re seeking out that others are taking for granted, that they might not be getting. Right. So, the things that we would do in an interpersonal kind of face-to-face relationship or exchange of information, we need to translate that to these tools as well.
Jessica Miller-Merrell: [00:09:13.00] Source America is known for many things, including their research and reports. And we talked about one earlier. In fact, in learning more about you guys and what you do, so much of your work is led by statistics and research. And I love that. And it is so great because you guys are focused on helping to educate others about the barriers to employment for people with disabilities and the solutions that exist to help with job creation and finding meaningful work. And one of those reports that really caught my attention is titled ICT Leadership in Inclusive Employment of Persons with Disabilities: An Economic and Social Imperative. Can you talk a little bit more about the paper and the research in this particular report?
Shane Kanady: [00:09:56.00] Absolutely. So, this report was a very exciting collaboration we had with the World Information Technology and Services Alliance, WITSA is the acronym. They’re an international consortium that represents 90 percent of the global information and communication technology economy. So, if we think about the scale and reach of that, it’s incredible. So in partnering with them, we really identified with their overarching goal of fulfilling the promise of the digital age, which includes technology as catalysts for addressing gaps in access to basic resources, connectivity, education, employment and how all of that relates to levels of poverty across the world. So we teamed up with them based on this recognition that the global ICT industries, Information and Communication Technology, had limited or no focus on the employment of persons with disabilities, on bringing them into these conversations and really enabling their talents and their skills to inform the design of technology and to help solve problems that others are facing throughout the world, through a lived experience. So, the paper that we wrote with them makes the case that there are compelling reasons for countries and industries to intentionally focus on this inclusion. So, we researched available data on the buying power of persons with disabilities and the market potential for assistive technology, and the impact on gross domestic product. So those are economic levers that we wanted to bring people into that conversation, but also wanted to look at the social aspect of that. How does exclusion show up and how does that impact people in a multigenerational way? Right. We see these long-term trends and it’s really important to shine a light on this and bring people into these conversations.
Jessica Miller-Merrell: [00:11:50.00] I love this report because I feel like for so many HR leaders who are thinking about assistive technology or they are focused on inclusion or want to be more involved, sometimes it’s hard to explain to their leadership team the bigger picture impact of hiring people with disabilities and then bringing in the technology to support those individuals. So the bigger picture, I think, speaks to those executive leaders who say, look, here’s how this is going to help the larger ecosystem and our business is going to benefit by adding this technology as part of our employee engagement or just workplace technology stack.
Shane Kanady: [00:12:39.00] For sure. It’s incredibly important to engage leaders, to really set the tone and understand and recognize the value that could be created not only for their businesses, but for their communities around them. By really investing in this idea that people bring value and if you enable them to do so with the tools and resources that are provided through technology, right.
Shane Kanady: [00:13:06.00] Are there also very simple non technological ways that we can break down barriers for people? But it really starts from the top in terms of setting that tone and getting that investment.
Jessica Miller-Merrell: [00:13:17.00] Because I think so much of our world right now, and for the foreseeable future and moving forward, it’s going to be focused on technology, particularly in how we communicate and be able to work together, especially if we are engaging remote workers. I wanted to ask you for your thoughts on ways that as employers, we can help encourage technology adoption in our businesses so that we can have employees, everyone, including those with disabilities, be able to come to work and be able to do their best work in the workplace environment.
Shane Kanady: [00:13:51.00] Absolutely. So, there’s kind of the focus that we’ve been sharing on remote working technology. So, you know talking about that. But also, the larger ramifications of technology as it’s influencing the way that work is changing. Right. So, from a remote work technology, this is a cultural shift. Some adapt to change quicker than others. Some have a level of comfort already there. They’ve used the technology. They are able to get into the flow of how these things operate now. But some have never had that access before and never been challenged to use it. So, the introduction of that technology needs to be accompanied by training and resources to assist employees as they transition and then maximize the benefits for a company. And those resources should address the diverse learning styles that people have. The companies should seek feedback on any barriers, accessibility barriers, usability barriers, that people may experience, those with disabilities and those without. So, they can continue to improve how they enable the productivity of their teams. But as we take that into a larger future of work discussion around employers introducing technology, there’s this generalized focus on automation and artificial intelligence. And there’s fear that people hold about losing their jobs, either parts of their jobs or their entire jobs. And there are some more immediate threats than others. It’s a really important topic given the current events that we’re in with the pandemic and the recession and the potential to accelerate the adoption of technology, which we’ve seen historically when we’ve gone through recessions. So, this really, you know, causes employers to think about the need to demonstrate the benefits to their employees through the use of technology. Are there increases in productivity and assistance with repetitive and programmable tasks that allow them to focus on more fulfilling activities? Are there ways to augment their natural abilities to perform tasks that may have been presented as barriers before? And can we use the technology to increase the connectivity with our peers and build stronger culture? We need people to help people to see the virtues of the investments that are being made and not just feel the fear of losing their jobs.
Jessica Miller-Merrell: [00:16:10.00] One of the things that as you’re talking really stood out with me is fulfilling work, because I do think that given where we are in our lives right now, we are making some decisions and maybe making some reevaluations in terms of how we want to live our best life. And that involves having maybe a more fulfilling job or spending more time at home with family or maybe picking up some hobbies or doing different things. So, I think that all of us are kind of in this re-evaluation mode right now. And anything that we can do to make the workplace feel and be more engaging and fulfilling is just time well spent for our business leaders to be thinking about. So, I love that.
Break: [00:16:57.00] Let’s take a reset. This is Jessica Miller-Merrell. And you are listening to the Workology podcast. Today, we’re talking with Shane Kanady about job creation programs for people with disabilities. This podcast is sponsored by WorkMarket, an ADP Company.
Break: [00:17:12.00] And this podcast episode is part of our Future of Work series in partnership with PEAT. They’re the Partnership on Employment and Accessible Technology.
Break: [00:17:21.00] You have a handle on your W2 employees. But what about all of those 1099 contractors? With WorkMarket, your company gains visibility into your extended workforce. Learn more at workmarket.com.
Jessica Miller-Merrell: [00:17:37.00] As our labor market shifts and we rely more on technology to engage, communicate and collaborate, I wanted to ask you about some ways that you’re seeing employers leverage technology for job creation, specifically for people with disabilities.
Shane Kanady: [00:17:54.00] So there’s a ton of potential in this area with advancements in assistive technology, telepresence, extended reality. An example that I like to use came from Japan and there was a pilot project called the Dawn ver.β cafe, and it was started in 2018. And it was a pop-up cafe that they were really testing how this model would work with the hope of then, this year in 2020, making this a full-time establishment. But that cafe, what they did was they used robotic wait staff that were controlled remotely by persons with significant physical disabilities including spinal cord injuries and ALS. Using remote technology from their homes, the individuals performed tasks through the robots, such as customer service and delivering drinks and they were compensated at the same wage as any other member of the wait staff labor force in Japan so they weren’t paid less just because they weren’t physically present the way that others might be. And that experiment, you know, hopefully will lead to more innovations along those lines and the ability for people to engage with work in a different way. Because the point really, and this is a very unique example, but the point is that people can create equal or greater value for customers and employers through the creative use of technology. That technology that can reduce and remove barriers and accentuate individual’s abilities, allow them to show up for work in a different way. Right.
Jessica Miller-Merrell: [00:19:28.00] I love this example on so many levels and I think that it is creative and so innovative. And you are right. We’re in a time right now where it is having us reassess and we are going to be able to look at the world much differently.
Jessica Miller-Merrell: [00:19:45.00] So I love this example from Japan because I think that what a great way to provide employment for people with disabilities, but also give them equal pay, because I think that’s something that we don’t always think about. I know a lot of companies are focused on equal pay for, like, gender groups or based on race. But this is another case study and I think an area that we should be thinking more about in terms of equality, in terms of compensation. Even if you aren’t at the cafe, you’re still doing the same job as someone who is physically in that location.
Shane Kanady: [00:20:28.00] Yeah, absolutely. It’s important, right? Because there is not in this case, in this example, there’s a presumption of ability. There’s not a focus on limitations. Right. So, people were provided with the tools and the resources to contribute just as anyone else would in that industry.
Jessica Miller-Merrell: [00:20:47.00] Outside of technology adoption, what are other ways that employers can make work be more inclusive?
Shane Kanady: [00:20:52.00] So we talked about this a little bit in terms of really looking to leaders, leaders setting the tone, leaders setting that culture. So many of my colleagues talk about this topic in great detail through their publications and the different things that they do. So, Frances West, Jonathan Kaufman and Debra Ruh, they really talk about how it starts from the top and this authentic embracing of the value of diversity across all dimensions, including disability. Right. Not just, you know we’re not talking exclusively one thing here. Diversity is so vast, and we need to recognize that there is value throughout that. But if leaders, they actually subscribe to the idea that they can obtain market advantage through diverse hiring. It permeates their organization, influences their recruitment, interviewing, onboarding practices and the way that their teams operate because they have recognized the value to their business in doing so. I think we find that the hiring process, and it’s not a negative attribution, it’s just the way that it works. And then I’m a hiring manager myself. The hiring process is inherently discriminatory because we are seeking out a certain set of skills, experiences, cultural fit. So, the processes that we use, whether they’re digital or analog, they filter people out, not in. And we start to see this come up more and more as we look at some of the technology that we’re using now that we’ve come to rely on to facilitate these processes, where there is algorithmic bias in the technology we’re using that continues to screen people out as opposed to screening them in, recognizing that they have talent and value to contribute. But they might not conform to what the technology is looking for based on how we as humans programmed it. So, if leaders can set this culture and kind of influence that down, it goes to the people who are making decisions, the people that are engaging with others. And it goes into then the design of that technology, how they seek out talent, and maybe we can start to influence these tools to be more inclusive, to be more, to acknowledge the diversity and the benefits from bringing people with disabilities into the workforce.
Jessica Miller-Merrell: [00:23:12.00] There seems like there’s a lot of employment and training programs for people with disabilities right now, and they are growing every single day. Where can employers go to find out more about these programs? Also asking for myself, because one of our most popular blog posts on our site is a list of companies who are hiring and have autism hiring programs. But I wanted to say, where can we go to find across the board, not just one specific, but a place where people can go to be able to find these types of programs for training development?
Shane Kanady: [00:23:48.00] Sure. There is no shortage of great information out there around the employment of persons with disabilities and accommodations and strategies and tips and those sorts of things. And they really cater to different audiences as well. So there are great public resources through the Department of Labor’s Office of Disability and Employment Policy, through the Job Accommodation Network, the Employer Assistance and Resource Network on Disability Inclusion, the Partnership on Employment and Accessible Technology, who is a part of sponsoring the podcast, and also the state vocational rehabilitation offices. Right. So, there’s tons of public resources that are out there, their websites, through direct consultation with them and outreach. They work with employers to help bridge any fears or any gaps in systems or to give the support services to really increase the employment possibilities. And Source America, in our network of nonprofits, also offer these sorts of support from a national and local level to directly work with employers to work to enhance our ability to do so through partnerships and through technology. That’s one of our goals, that we have something that we’re working on. But we are, you know, available as are nonprofits in communities all across the country, to be a direct resource for small and medium sized businesses, large businesses.
Jessica Miller-Merrell: [00:25:05.00] The Source America Twitter feed, as a side note, they have a great one. And you should give them a follow for a lot of different reasons. But they have a whole list on the Twitter feed of just different programs as they come about. And I think that there’s so much value in all this information that’s being shared and all these resources that exist. And I think that so many people don’t know where to start or where to even go to find basic information on these training programs. So, thank you.
Jessica Miller-Merrell: [00:25:48.00] One thing I did want to follow up on, because we’re talking about job creation training programs, I think a lot of times it’s just focused on the private sector. So, I wanted to ask you about programs and resources for federal contractors or public sectors like university, state and federal government agencies. What can these groups do to employ more people with disabilities? And are there any specific training programs for those sectors?
Shane Kanady: [00:26:18.00] So those groups, they can access a lot of the resources that I had mentioned that were publicly available. But they also have some unique things that they look at and can look for as well. So federal agencies certainly can interact directly with the Office of Disability Employment Policy within the Department of Labor on a government to government basis. Right. And get that access. Be able to speak to come from a shared terminology, a shared experience of being federal agencies. But also, those agencies, and this is not just at the federal level, but also at the state and community levels, that want to dive deep into understanding policy and programmatic and technology-based barriers from a human centered lens. Right. From the impact on people and engaging people on the design of improving these things. There are some really creative resources out there, like the lab at OPM within the Office of Personnel Management and 18F through GSA, better human design, human centered design labs, that are resources for diagnosing and helping to overcome these sorts of challenges. And I’ve had a personal experience of working with the lab at OPM, and it was fantastic. So federal contractors, as a subset of this, those that do business with the government, they can also receive support through the Department of Labor’s Office of Federal Contract Compliance Programs, because there are regulatory things that they need to think about in terms of an inclusive workforce.
Jessica Miller-Merrell: [00:27:46.00] So one question we’ve asked this year in our podcast series, The Future of Work podcast series with PEAT. We’ve asked every single person that we’ve interviewed, and I love that we’re doing this because it is the 30th year anniversary of the Americans with Disabilities Act. So, as we look to the next 30 years of work, what emerging workplace trends or technologies do you think will have the biggest impact on people with disabilities?
Shane Kanady: [00:28:11.00] I think this is a great question. And I, and I really thought a lot about it as I was preparing. But I’d like to approach it really in the context of current events and you know comparing that to historical trends. So, as we come through the COVID-19 crisis and navigate this period of economic recession or impact, it’s important to recognize that diverse groups have different experiences with social and economic disruption. It’s not the same across the board. And historically, persons with disabilities have seen significant declines in employment following recessions and periods of recovery, which speeds up trends, long term trends that we see in detachment from the labor market. So kind of putting it in that context, before we had this experience with the COVID-19 outbreak, we saw an increased attention to hiring persons with disabilities as a result of the historically low levels of unemployment that we had over the past couple of years. And there are several issues with that topic that I explore in some of my other reports. But there is also just the positive aspect of having that increased media attention on that topic. But there’s a reason to be concerned that that momentum that was built up over those 10 years of economic recovery, around diversity and inclusion around persons with disabilities might be lost because of this next recession. So that the trend that I hope to see is a continuation of that attention and the promotion of hiring persons with disabilities, not just as candidates of last resort, when employers are struggling to fill jobs in good economic times, but as talented contributors with lived experiences that offer new perspectives to propel businesses forward. We can talk about different aspects of technology and increases in remote options and the gig economy and those sorts of things. But a decrease in public awareness and recognition of the value of persons with disabilities might really kind of undermine the potential of what could be experienced through any of these new options and new emerging things that we’re all taking for granted.
Jessica Miller-Merrell: [00:30:11.00] I’m so glad that you brought this up, because we’ve heard all kinds of different predictions. But this is a nice reminder, given the current economic crisis and situation that we’re all living in, that we don’t want to take steps backward. We want to continue moving forward, especially when it comes to diversity, inclusion efforts for all different types of people, but especially people with disabilities.
Shane Kanady: [00:30:38.00] Absolutely. And it’s one of those things where, you know, you don’t want to give up ground. You recognize that the world is changing, and things are dynamic. But any progress that we have made over the past 10 years, it would be a shame to see any of that go to waste.
Jessica Miller-Merrell: [00:30:53.00] Well, Shane, thank you so much for taking the time to talk with us today. I wanted to ask you where people can go to learn more about you and the work that you’re doing with Source America.
Shane Kanady: [00:31:03.00] Sure. So, I would encourage people to visit our website: sourceamerica.org. We can learn more about our organization and the multiple programs that we do. I’m just in one division in Source America. There’s a whole team of people that are doing great work and working with our member nonprofits. On our website there’s a sub tab for Future of Work that contains a lot of the reports that we’ve done. And you can also follow us as an organization through social media on Facebook, Twitter, and LinkedIn. From a personal standpoint, I also try to be as active as possible through LinkedIn. And it’s a challenge. It’s kind of exhausting to try and keep up with the other people out there in the world that are doing such a great job of really promoting the work of others and themselves. But I try to do that. So, I’d love to connect with your listeners through that as well.
Jessica Miller-Merrell: [00:31:50.00] Awesome. Well, we will link to Shane’s LinkedIn profile so that you can connect with him directly, as well as provide additional resources to some of the reports that we mentioned with Source America as well as other resources. I am definitely looking for resources on the lab at OPM and GSA that you mentioned. I think that these will all be helpful to any HR and workforce leaders who are looking for more information and ways to help support their diversity inclusion efforts in terms of hiring people with disabilities and in the job creation front. So, thank you.
Shane Kanady: [00:32:27.00] Thank you. I appreciate it. Thank you for this opportunity. It was a great honor to join you today.
Closing: [00:32:34.00] The Workology Podcast, Future of Work series is supported by PEAT, the Partnership on Employment and Accessible Technology. PEAT’s initiative is to foster collaboration and action around accessible technology in the workplace. PEAT is funded by the U.S. Department of Labor’s Office of Disability Employment Policy, ODEP. Learn more about PEAT at peatworks.org. That’s peatworks.org.
Closing: [00:33:03.00] Workplace planning needs to start now, and as employers, we must take a look at new skill building and staffing programs and initiatives. That includes technology, too. My hope is that we can take this time to reflect. We know how competitive the market is for talent. We also know where our gaps lie in terms of skills training and our people, which means that we can rebuild and take what we know using that to our advantage to truly create an inclusive workplace that is focused on job creation, training and technology. And this taps into all different kinds of talent pools, including people with disabilities. I want to thank our podcast sponsor, WorkMarket, an ADP company. What I love about Shane’s interview is that all the resources and information, there’s so much available and at our disposal right now. We can create a truly inclusive and innovative job creation program, whether we are private or a public sector company. I encourage you to check out the resources in this episode’s show notes to connect with Source America, as well as the wealth of resources that Shane mentions in this entire interview. The Future of Work series is in partnership with PEAT. And it is one of my favorites. Thank you again to PEAT and to our sponsor, WorkMarket, an ADP company.